Feel free to contribute to this forum - no login is required http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/list.php?2 Thu, 23 May 2013 08:36:42 +1200 Phorum 5.2.18 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7291,7291#msg-7291 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7291,7291#msg-7291
If you've got surplus furniture taking up space and gathering dust, let me know. I've got a small place, so smaller items might be happier in my new home.

Thanks
Megan - moonsety@gmail.com]]> Megan Sety WTMC Forum Tue, 21 May 2013 16:49:58 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7290,7290#msg-7290 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7290,7290#msg-7290
just to advertise that a leader is now required for the kapakapanui E/M tramp on the 15th & 16th June. Please talk to chief guide if interested in leading.

regards

Pete]]> Pete WTMC Forum Tue, 21 May 2013 16:26:24 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7289,7289#msg-7289 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7289,7289#msg-7289
I'm looking for two speakers/presentations for Wednesday 26 June and 3 July. I know you're hiding out there, and I know you need a tinsy winsy push to get you to put your hand up, so consider this the push! We would love to see your photos and hear your story so go ahead, and drop me a line at social@wtmc.org.nz. :-)]]> Sue WTMC Forum Fri, 17 May 2013 11:22:45 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7288,7288#msg-7288 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7288,7288#msg-7288 journal@wtmc.org.nz

To avoid disappointment and help with planning we recommend that you get in touch with Tony if you are aiming to submit an article. He can give you a deadline and advice on preferred article length and other stuff.

Also, we welcome feedback on what you'd like to see in our Journal and what you thought of the 2012 Journal. Send any feedback to the editor or promotions@wtmc.org.nz]]> Sharron WTMC Forum Thu, 16 May 2013 09:10:36 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7287,7287#msg-7287 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7287,7287#msg-7287
We also have a wee change to the programme showing in the newsletter. The following Wednesday, the 22nd, we are highlighting the ideals things to do and place to go for the winter - not to be missed!]]> Sue WTMC Forum Sat, 11 May 2013 11:32:41 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7277,7286#msg-7286 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7277,7286#msg-7286
I'm not an authority on this so a lawyer might give more reliable advice.

You'd see stuff about "Great Walks" in the various General Policy and Management Plan documents which guide the use and management of parks, but I don't think Great Walks are specifically recognised (as Great Walks) in most law. I think it's basically just a case of each park having its own bylaws which specifically set all the same restrictions around use of the tracks in those parks that are designated as Great Walks.

If there's no bylaw, it might still be possible for DOC to restrict camping within 200 metres of "a Great Walk" under the Freedom Camping Act which came in during 2011. That Act explicitly refers to Great Walks, and says that "freedom camping" includes camping within 200 metres of "a Great Walks Track", as well as various other places like nearby roads. Then it lets DOC ban "freedom camping" by putting up an official notice---basically a notice in a daily newspaper near the area which you'd be expected to have seen. Despite referring to Great Walks, it's unclear what a Great Walks Track actually is, except that it's one of the walks listed in a schedule of that Act. The schedule only has a bunch of names, without defining what they actually are (or even which parks they're in!), but I'd guess a court would treat it as being DOC's official description of the walk (which is what the bylaws mentioned below refer to).


For the bylaws, S56 of the National Parks Act is what allows bylaws to be made and describes what they're allowed to be for and the conditions they have to meet....

Section (e) enables bylaws for prescribing conditions on the use of camping sites, but for the Great Walk camping restrictions, they seem to make use of section (d) which basically enables "prescribing the conditions on which persons shall have access to or be excluded from any park or any part of the park.....". So, for example, if you look at section 5A of the Fiordland bylaws, they say that anyone can have access to "all land within 500 metres on either side of" the Kepler, Milford and Routeburn tracks, and the area within 100 metres of any hut or emergency shelter, as long as no person camps in those areas.

The tracks themselves are defined, in the interpretation section 2, as being defined on maps held at either the Otago conservancy office or the Southland conservancy office. So effectively Fiordland's bylaw 5A is defining an area in which camping is not allowed by means of saying "within 500 metres of some line on a map held in our office". Bylaw 5A for Tongariro National Park, regarding the Tongariro Northern Circuit, is almost a mirror image of this with the Turangi office holding the map. But yeah, if there was no bylaw then DOC might still have gone down the Freedom Camping Act route. I haven't checked the other Great Walks, but I'd guess they're dealt with in similar ways.

In the Tongariro Crossing's case, even if there was a legal definition of an area surrounding it, there's still no bylaw which enables people to be locked out of the land in the way that DOC was seemingly trying to publicise to everyone that they were.]]> MikeM WTMC Forum Fri, 10 May 2013 13:07:10 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7277,7285#msg-7285 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7277,7285#msg-7285
Does the fact that the Tongariro Crossing is officially a "Great Walk" make any difference to any of that? And what, in fact, is the legal basis of the Great Walks, if indeed there actually is any? The Abel Tasman National Park bylaws include explicit restrictions on camping, but if other national parks don't actually have any bylaws, does this mean that the camping restrictions that DOC imposes along Great Walks in those parks don't actually have any legal basis?]]> Harry WTMC Forum Fri, 10 May 2013 12:01:43 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7284,7284#msg-7284 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7284,7284#msg-7284 www.mapsport.co.nz/wellyrogs for info and enroll on the orienteering calendar found at www.maptalk.co.nz

It is cheaper to join the Hutt Valley Orienteering (OHV) Club to get the discount rogaine entry rates. All rogaines are run under the umbrella of OHV to cover public liability insurance.

Info is also published on the Ridgerunners Facebook page, but you still have to pre enroll on line as above.

A few club members go and it is a fun evening no matter what the weather is like. A good contrast to your nights in! A team of two or more is required unless you are well known to the organisers.]]> marie WTMC Forum Wed, 08 May 2013 21:43:04 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7277,7283#msg-7283 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7277,7283#msg-7283
It varies and depends on the park. S13 of the Conservation Act lets the Minister of Conservation "close" areas of any conservation area for reasons of "public safety" or "emergency", or alternatively in a way that's consistent with the conservation management plan for that area. There are also other provisions if there's no plan for that area. That power's assigned to the Minister, but in practice the Minister's allowed to delegate it to the DOC Director General, who can then delegate it down the chain even further. Presently (I asked) the ability is delegated as far down the chain as DOC Conservators and Area Managers.

This is only for Conservation Areas, though, which basically means all government land held for conservation purposes that's not a Reserve or a National Park. So for the most part it means Conservation Parks including Forest Parks, Stewardship Land, Marginal Strips, and so on.

For National Parks, the National Parks Act states that access can only be restricted with a bylaw for that park, which needs to be created and gazetted by the Minister. In practice, rather than making a bylaw that specifically closes an area of land in law, the Minister would usually make a bylaw which states "DOC can close the land when DOC sees fit"... which is basically what happens via delegation from the Minister for conservation areas. Reserves are different again. eg. You won't get onto Kapiti Island with a broad right of public access.

Tongariro National Park doesn't have any bylaws which enable access to be restricted, so all this stuff about the area being closed has been made up publicity to make people think they're not allowed in. In the face of a possible tourist-massacre disaster DOC's trying to tread a narrow tightrope, and in the immediate sense it's probably to a better end given the type of people who frequent that park (especially the crossing), the extent to which most people don't understand geothermal risks, and what might happen if people thought they could legally walk past a "Crossing Closed" sign. But I'm surprised that there was never anything in the Management Plan to request a bylaw enabling official closure of areas in the case of dangerous volcanic activity. That would have ensured that there was at least public consultation around how it could work.

Similar issue with Young Valley down south. After that natural dam formed in 2007 with a danger of a giant valley-flooding collapse, DOC's been advertising on and off that the valley is open or closed to entry, and if you just went through the media you'd think DOC had a total and complete right to restrict people's entry, yet the Mt Aspiring National Park bylaws make no provision for DOC to keep people out. A friend asked DOC closer to that time and received a response from the DG that strictly speaking it wasn't legally closed, irrespective of all the media publicity in which DOC's very happy to say that it is.

I don't think either of these situations was such a bad idea for having access restricted, especially Tongariro, but it seems wrong that DOC's inferring to people that they'll be criminals if they step over a line when that's false, just as DOC commonly advertises that tracks are closed without actually legally closing them. As there's no legal ability for DOC to close these areas, or alternatively DOC knowingly hasn't actually closed them (closing a track makes no sense if there's public access all around it), there's automatically been no public input or consultation over when it should be okay for DOC to make everyone think it's closing them. DOC's just going ahead and acting as if it has that ability in a way that fits whatever it thinks it'd like to be able to do, irrespective of what people might think about how dangerous something has to be to warrant keeping everyone out, or what risks people should be allowed to take.

The only two National Parks that actually have bylaws right now which enable DOC to legally block public access are Abel Tasman National Park and Kahurangi National Park. These were also added recently---Section 20 of the Abel Tasman bylaws was added in 2009, and basically enables DOC to "prohibit persons from entering the park, or part of the park, for a specified period....to protect the public and keep them safe". I don't know the story behind that one.

Section 19A of the Kahurangi National Park bylaws was added in 2011, as part of the changes towards letting Mountain Biking operate in the park. The bylaw itself basically lets DOC prohibit entry for park management, for protecting native plants and animals, or for "protecting the public and keeping them safe". I still don't understand why it has to be so broad if it was truly only a response to enabling mountain biking. Every other type of thing has its own specification in the bylaws (motorised vehicles, boats, aircraft, non-motorised vehicles), yet somehow mountain biking was used as an excuse to incorporate a bylaw that enables DOC to close access to any part of the park for everyone for their own protection.

Anyway, this seems to be the way things are going since a few years ago. I think as National Park management plans come up for review, we'll see a lot more bylaws being gazetted by the Minister which basically make it legal for DOC to arbitrarily close areas of National Parks with the justification of protecting people across-the-board from themselves, which isn't too different from what's also possible in Conservation Areas. In practice *real* closures, at least, are generally meant to be consistent with management plans or other general policy, and those things should at least have undergone public consultation. That said, the current government seems to be trying to do away with much of the Management Plan and public consultation processes for park management, so I don't know what that entails for the longer term future of park management and legal access rights.]]> MikeM WTMC Forum Wed, 08 May 2013 14:33:22 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7277,7282#msg-7282 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7277,7282#msg-7282 Harry WTMC Forum Wed, 08 May 2013 12:21:11 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7208,7281#msg-7281 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7208,7281#msg-7281 Paul WTMC Forum Wed, 08 May 2013 10:41:56 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7208,7280#msg-7280 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7208,7280#msg-7280 Matt WTMC Forum Tue, 07 May 2013 20:55:02 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7279,7279#msg-7279 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7279,7279#msg-7279
Arc'teryx, DMM, Blue Ice, Idris Skis, Valandre and other top-of-the-range brands will be providing equipment to test and the days out will be complemented by an exciting line up of talks and screenings. We will not reveal too much yet but you can already look forward to the new award-winning feature documentary film "Petit Dru - The Disintegrating Mountain", with Andy Parkin as guest and a lecture on the 1st ascent of the Mazeno Ridge of Nanga Parbat by the 2013 Piolets d’Or awarded Sandy Allan.

Where: Chamonix Mont-Blanc, French Alps

When: 1st - 8th June 2013

With accommodation in a beautiful historic building in the very centre of Chamonix, great French food, a mini information centre providing assistance on conditions and route choice and, most importantly, fellow mountaineers from all over the world, you can already start preparing a list of your dream ascents.

€60 per day includes accommodation, food - full board, everyday lift pass, conditions info, gear testing, lectures, films, etc.
(For comparison even a cheapest accommodation, food and a lift pass, which is around €50, would cost you around €100 per day if you come on your own!)

No age limit, no climbing grade limit!

Find more information and register at http://www.chamonixmountainfestival.com/

And while you are at it, you can also follow the updates on
Facebook http://www.facebook.com/ChamonixMountainFestival
Twitter https://twitter.com/ChamMountFest

Marta]]> Marta Leon WTMC Forum Sun, 05 May 2013 08:06:41 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7277,7278#msg-7278 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7277,7278#msg-7278
Not to suggest that entering of the zone would have been a smart or popular thing to do.]]> MikeM WTMC Forum Sat, 04 May 2013 17:54:00 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7277,7277#msg-7277 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7277,7277#msg-7277 The Department of Conservation is pleased to announce the re-opening of the northern section of the Tongariro Alpine Crossing. This will allow walkers to walk the full length of the track from Mangatepopo car-park to the Ketetahi car-park. This will take effect from Wednesday 8 May, 2013.]]> lodge convenor (Brian Goodwin) WTMC Forum Thu, 02 May 2013 21:42:17 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7276,7276#msg-7276 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7276,7276#msg-7276 The purpose of the working party is to carry our bulk food supplies to the lodge and also to give the lodge a pre winter clean.
It is also an opportunity for anyone wanting to know the operation of the lodge and how to open and close the lodge during the winter months.
If anyone has put their name on the list in the clubrooms and can make it a week earlier can they please ring Andrew on 4616431 evenings or email lodgeconvenor@wtmc.org.nz and let us know.]]> lodge convenor (Brian Goodwin) WTMC Forum Thu, 02 May 2013 21:35:15 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7176,7275#msg-7275 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7176,7275#msg-7275
Yep, you're one of the folks with shared email addresses, so I'll email you about resetting your password and getting you into the main website.

The website (in Drupal) and the forum (in Phorum) use quite different and incompatible authentication systems. I think with quite a bit of work it might be possible to integrate them, but that's not too far near the top of our to-do list. You don't actually need to use a login for the Phorum forum, so very few folks actually have set one up.

Cheers, Mike.]]> MikeG WTMC Forum Thu, 02 May 2013 09:25:16 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7176,7274#msg-7274 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7176,7274#msg-7274 healeyhouse WTMC Forum Wed, 01 May 2013 19:13:20 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7273,7273#msg-7273 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7273,7273#msg-7273 alpine@wtmc.org.nz]]> Sharron WTMC Forum Tue, 30 Apr 2013 19:06:42 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7264,7272#msg-7272 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7264,7272#msg-7272 Pete WTMC Forum Tue, 30 Apr 2013 08:51:07 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7271,7271#msg-7271 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7271,7271#msg-7271
Paramount 6.30pm Tuesday 11 June and Tuesday 18 June

Always a good mix of climbing, alpine, biking, kayaking, skiing and other weird and wacky adventureous stuff. Films of various lenghts, one longish one per session and an intermission so you can get your sugar fix.

For more info including how to get tickets follow the link below


[alpineclub.org.nz]]]> Sharron WTMC Forum Mon, 29 Apr 2013 20:10:01 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7264,7270#msg-7270 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7264,7270#msg-7270
I've been in touch with Kupe and I'm going to put myself on the waiting list for spaces in their storage facility.

Only problem is what to do until then . . .

Gareth]]> Gareth Gretton WTMC Forum Mon, 29 Apr 2013 16:24:44 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7269,7269#msg-7269 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7269,7269#msg-7269 Sue WTMC Forum Sun, 28 Apr 2013 14:49:28 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7268,7268#msg-7268 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7268,7268#msg-7268
"Join us for our first planting day for the year. We will be putting ngaio along the river banks.

That will require us to cut the gorse and stack it around the plants (to keep the sheep from damaging them), mulching the plants with water weed, and we will also search for any wandering willy that has been brought down in the floods and remove it before it becomes established.

Bring along your gloves and spades and help restore our regional park

If you need a ride or more info contact details are at [www.gw.govt.nz]

Kind regards
the Friends of Baring Head Trustees"]]> Pete WTMC Forum Fri, 26 Apr 2013 07:45:06 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7208,7267#msg-7267 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7208,7267#msg-7267 relayed here by a third party) is: “due to delays in window manufacture and the recent weather the hut will not be ready for members of the public [in the week of 30 April, but that] if the contractors get up there this week the hut should be ready to open in early May."]]> MikeM WTMC Forum Thu, 25 Apr 2013 10:21:28 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7208,7266#msg-7266 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7208,7266#msg-7266 David Heffernan WTMC Forum Tue, 23 Apr 2013 16:58:14 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7264,7265#msg-7265 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7264,7265#msg-7265
if you get stuck, get in touch with Kupe Canoe club or the Wellington Sea Kayakers Network. They have secure kayak storage at Evens Bay, out near the airport.

regards

Pete]]> Pete WTMC Forum Tue, 23 Apr 2013 08:59:50 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7264,7264#msg-7264 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7264,7264#msg-7264
I've recently moved to Wellington (from the UK) and am looking for somewhere to store my sea kayak. A garage or shed would be ideal, but anywhere under cover could also be OK. Failing that, if you have a suitable garden that could also be useful as a stop-gap!

I live in Kelburn (in a house with no garage, and loads of steps up to the garden!) so anywhere in Wellington would be more or less OK. If you live near the sea that would be amazing!

My kayak is about 5.3m long, 0.5m wide and 0.3m high.

I'm happy to pay rent for the space.

Thanks,

Gareth]]> Gareth Gretton WTMC Forum Mon, 22 Apr 2013 19:32:11 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7250,7263#msg-7263 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7250,7263#msg-7263
Mike]]> Mike WTMC Forum Mon, 22 Apr 2013 09:17:25 +1200 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7259,7262#msg-7262 http://www.wtmc.org.nz/phorum/read.php?2,7259,7262#msg-7262 :D:D:D]]> Nicky Shields WTMC Forum Sun, 21 Apr 2013 14:51:18 +1200